1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,440 New Jack is in the belt, getting 20 feet up! 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,720 Jack could turn the ring into a riot scene. Quick. 3 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:09,240 Whoa! Holy (bleep)! (Bleep)! 4 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:13,640 -But that was his job. -He fucked some people's lives up. 5 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:17,200 In a world where the lines of fiction and reality are blurred, 6 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:20,440 no one pushed the boundaries further than Jerome Young, 7 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,000 aka, New Jack. 8 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:27,640 I'm not selling out to y'all! You don't like me, to hell with ya! 9 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:29,840 The line in wrestling between... 10 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,040 cooperation and physical assault is blurred. 11 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,560 You can only go so far 12 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:38,240 without your opponent knowing it's coming. 13 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:40,800 But how far is too far? 14 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,520 Fuck you, man. You know what you did. Period. 15 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:48,200 And what happens when a wrestler lost in his character 16 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:52,200 is set loose in a world that rewards extreme violence? 17 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:53,920 New Jack! 18 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:56,600 You want to talk that big boy shit to me? 19 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:01,800 I will dare you to come to my face and say that shit. I will dare you! 20 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:05,160 I eat your ass alive. I dare you. 21 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,720 Far beyond the world of elbow drops and headlocks 22 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:20,400 lies the underground realm of extreme hardcore wrestling, 23 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:23,600 where fans' appetite for real-life brutality is endless. 24 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:26,280 When audiences thought they'd seen it all, 25 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,040 New Jack took it to a whole new level. 26 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,040 Many of his performances bordered on criminal, 27 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:34,840 and some crossed that line. 28 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:38,120 Today, we examine one of wrestling's most provocative 29 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:39,920 and controversial characters, 30 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:42,200 to reveal the man behind the monster, 31 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:46,240 and the legacy he has left in his wake. 32 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:51,440 Okay, so, for someone who is totally not familiar, who is New Jack? 33 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:55,400 I could not swear in court that anything New Jack ever told me 34 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:59,040 about his background was true. I've heard he was a bounty hunter. 35 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:03,480 I've heard he had a number of justifiable homicides to his credit. 36 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,280 The way he talks, walks, carries himself. 37 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:07,920 This brother is real. 38 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:10,800 Just imagine a badass, big African-American dude 39 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,760 slinging drugs on one of the hardest streets in, 40 00:02:13,920 --> 00:02:15,600 like, Harlem, you know? 41 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,160 If you fuck with him, he will kill you. 42 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,720 Maybe not kill, but he will fuck you up. 43 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,520 He's that tough motherfucker, dude. 44 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:27,920 I went to a movie, "New Jack City". Just getting into wrestling then. 45 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,880 When I heard the name New Jack, I started playing it with my head, 46 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:36,120 like hearing fans chanting, "New Jack! New Jack! New Jack!" 47 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,440 How did you come into wrestling? Who taught you the ropes? 48 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:40,920 Ray Candy. 49 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:45,160 I got in the ring with him, and he was like, "Let me train you." 50 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:49,000 And he told me something one day that fucked my head up so bad... 51 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:53,680 "You got to create something that you've never seen before." 52 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,600 I said, "What kind of mind fuck is that?" 53 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:01,560 You want to create a character? Create something you've never seen. 54 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,120 When I saw Jack come out, 55 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:08,400 he picked up the energy in the room, and people reacted to him. 56 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:10,800 I'm Jim Cornette, and in the mid-90s, 57 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,160 I ran a wrestling promotion called Smoky Mountain Wrestling. 58 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:19,040 We wanted in on the Atlanta market. We needed a heel. 59 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:23,520 When I saw New Jack, he could project that aura of menace. 60 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:28,280 Like, straight-up motherfuckers from the goddamn hood. 61 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:30,360 He had an intensity on his face. 62 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,040 He gets the microphone and talks to the people. 63 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,440 Talking a mile a minute, getting people riled up. 64 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:40,480 I don't care nothing about these hillbillies not liking me! 65 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,600 Get in this ring and I'll beat you like I own you. 66 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:47,080 If Eddie Murphy was a bad-guy wrestler instead of a comedian? 67 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:49,320 New Jack. He could talk nonstop, 68 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:53,320 He could be entertaining. But he'd make you hate him. 69 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:57,400 Beyond his natural charisma, New Jack infuses his character 70 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,400 with a piercing level of real-world tension. 71 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:02,520 LA was hot at the time, 72 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:04,960 because of the Rodney King thing. 73 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,640 OJ just killed everybody in LA. South central LA was on the map. 74 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,800 And the whole gimmick, the raider gear, the gold chain, 75 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:14,400 I took that and put it into my character. 76 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,240 The audience was predominantly white, 77 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:19,800 predominantly redneck and hillbilly. 78 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:24,480 All you had to say was, "New Jack, go out, piss some white people off." 79 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:27,760 The rest was up to him, and it was gold. It was genius. 80 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:32,600 I'd like to send a special shout-out to my homeboy, OJ Simpson. 81 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:36,560 Keep up the good work, baby. Two less we got to worry about. 82 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:38,920 You understand? Keep up the good work! 83 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:42,600 "I want these motherfuckers to believe what I'm doing. 84 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,200 I want them to believe what I'm saying is fucking real." 85 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,000 To enhance New Jack's cutting-edge character, 86 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:51,520 he is paired with the perfect enforcer, 87 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,960 another Smoky Mountain recruit named Mustafa Saed. 88 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,640 He didn't say much, but he looked like he would kill somebody. 89 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,680 I said, a guy that can talk like this New Jack... 90 00:05:01,840 --> 00:05:06,440 I'm here and I'm gonna be here until I feel like I wanna leave. 91 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:10,480 And a guy that looks like Mustafa would be a great tag team. 92 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:14,320 He said, "What's your team name?" I said, "We don't have a name". 93 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,160 So then he said, "What about The Gangsters?" 94 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,960 I said, "What about The Gangstas, with an "as" on the end?" 95 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,680 Just picture a hardass movie in the hood somewhere, dude. 96 00:05:24,840 --> 00:05:26,800 They're the baddest dudes there. 97 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,920 I'm the Sandman, I've been a professional wrestler 98 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:31,480 since 1989. 99 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,120 My dude will play you in a game of pool, 100 00:05:34,280 --> 00:05:37,800 and when I lose, hit you over the head with the stick. 101 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:39,400 That's me, in a nutshell. 102 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:43,800 The Gangstas had a lot of heat in them white neighborhoods. 103 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:48,800 The Gangstas were a group of young, angry, black men 104 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:51,160 telling every white person... 105 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,520 what every other black person wanted to say but couldn't. 106 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:59,040 You little Caucasian white devil. I told you that I would get you. 107 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:03,680 The next time I get to put my hands around that little pink of yours, 108 00:06:03,840 --> 00:06:05,280 I'm gonna choke you. 109 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:09,040 My name is D'Lo Brown. I'm a 26-year pro. 110 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:10,520 God, that sounds old. 111 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,440 My role in The Gangstas was, I was their head of security. 112 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,120 In reality, the bump guy. 113 00:06:16,280 --> 00:06:19,560 The Gangstas would lose no heat, but you could beat me. 114 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:21,840 There goes D'Lo Brown. Hey, wait! 115 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,360 New Jack would stir people up so much. 116 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:27,400 None of his stuff was written. Often I stood there, 117 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:29,440 and I was like, "Ooh." 118 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,520 You wish I was like some old, some old... 119 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:36,360 watermelon, chicken bone-suckin' black folk! 120 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:40,080 Check those promos out. When Mustafa's next to him going, 121 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:42,640 "Na-na", that's what he was doing all day. 122 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,800 Know what I'm saying, nothing but rednecks up here! 123 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,120 That wasn't just the interview, that was Mustafa. 124 00:06:49,280 --> 00:06:50,760 Mustafa's crazy, bro. 125 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:55,120 The dude was rolling pencil shavings in one of those blunt things, 126 00:06:55,280 --> 00:06:57,880 and he wanted me to smoke it. "I'm good." 127 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,720 Was Mustafa smoking pencil shavings? 128 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,480 I plead the fifth. 129 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:08,640 "Jack, this is the new shit." He had pencil shavings. 130 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:12,240 He had some shit he found growing on the side of the building. 131 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:16,200 I said, "If you smoke that shit, it's gonna haunt you one day." 132 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,240 "Nah, man, this is some good shit. You gotta try." 133 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:21,800 So, we're in the hotel. I heard a knock. 134 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,600 Somebody said, "Mustafa's fighting the cops." 135 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:26,600 So, we dropped everything. 136 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,560 They had him handcuffed, face down. He's blowing snot on the floor. 137 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,280 And this is what Mustafa was saying, "You wanna fuck me, don't you? 138 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:36,400 I know you wanna fuck me." 139 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,400 I'm like, "What is wrong with you?" 140 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:41,800 He's like, "Nah, they wanna fuck me." 141 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,200 I said, "Mustafa, you lost your mind." 142 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:46,720 The Gangstas had embraced the idea that, 143 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:50,320 "I'm going to go out there and be a menace to society." 144 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,560 One night, we did a show. I'd been to the dentist, 145 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,320 and my mouth was so sore... I could hardly talk. 146 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,720 So we went to Walmart and I bought a white baby doll. 147 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:01,920 And I had a rope tied like a noose. 148 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:05,480 I got in the middle of the ring, and held the baby doll up. 149 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,760 And they was like, "Get the fuck out of here." 150 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,240 Jack had everyone so mad at The Gangstas, 151 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:13,840 Hitler could have been a babyface. 152 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:15,880 I pissed people the fuck off. 153 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,360 We got so much hate, to the point where these motherfuckers 154 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:21,040 was like, "Kill them niggas. 155 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,160 We gonna kill them fucking niggers." 156 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,440 Unleashing their unfiltered vision of the times, 157 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:31,200 The Gangstas are the hottest villains in the territory. 158 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,160 I wanted to get The Gangstas into the title picture. 159 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:38,880 They had to attack the champions, The Rock 'n' Roll Express. 160 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:41,320 Now, this is Ricky and Robert. 161 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,280 They been around forever, they been there and done it. 162 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:47,400 Taking controversy to a new level, 163 00:08:47,560 --> 00:08:51,680 they decide to recreate the 1992 police beating of Rodney King. 164 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:54,480 But in their version, the roles are reversed. 165 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:56,600 Ricky Morton is floored. 166 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,960 All of a sudden, The Gangstas and their posse, 167 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:01,680 Jack brought everybody. 168 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:03,840 They circled Ricky in the ring 169 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:07,840 and he's bleeding and he's looking to fans in the front row, "Help me". 170 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,480 And they beat him with night sticks. 171 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,840 Afterwards, all the white people went out in the back, 172 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:18,440 and they was waiting for us with bricks and sticks. 173 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,400 We got behind the cops, they turned their lights on, 174 00:09:21,560 --> 00:09:23,320 and escorted us out of town. 175 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:25,960 When I saw that, I knew we were doing our job. 176 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:30,880 The NAACP in Knoxville called, "This isn't good representation." 177 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,120 So, Jack took that and he said... 178 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:36,600 Some negroes down in Knoxville... 179 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:40,920 calling up the NAACP or something, they don't like me. 180 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:42,840 I'll say it again, 181 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,400 to hell with them homegrown monkeys. 182 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:50,240 Right? So, from that point on, we started putting up a disclaimer, 183 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:59,520 You thought we, maybe we was... cotton pickers? Wrong! 184 00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:04,200 Maybe you thought you had some homegrown negroes? Wrong! 185 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,520 Would you say that that period... was that fun? 186 00:10:07,680 --> 00:10:11,120 No. To have somebody... 187 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,680 calling you a nigger, I ain't got damn used to that shit. 188 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:19,280 I wasn't gonna try to get used to it. 189 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,600 The Gangstas were a microcosm of what was up in society. 190 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,000 And you drop us in the middle of the south, 191 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:29,040 the n-word was thrown around like you'd say hello. 192 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:33,840 It was uncomfortable, but it proved we were touching that nerve. 193 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:40,520 It's a pretty strange concept, yes. "I want someone to hurl slurs at me." 194 00:10:40,680 --> 00:10:43,960 A little boy came up to me one day. "Can I shake your hand?" 195 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,960 And instead, he rubbed my arm and looked at his hand. 196 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,360 I said, "Why'd you do that?" 197 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:52,520 He said, "I'm sorry. My dad told me, 198 00:10:52,680 --> 00:10:57,320 you rub a black person's arm, it'll rub off on you." 199 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:00,280 And I was just like, "You little shit!" 200 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:02,840 As their provocative routine runs its course, 201 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:07,960 The Gangstas jump at an offer from a larger wrestling outfit, ECW. 202 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,800 ECW was Extreme Championship Wrestling. 203 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,560 Paul Hayman wanted it to be... 204 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:17,120 the 1990s wrestling answer to the grunge music movement. 205 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:20,840 It would be gritty and violent, and they'd blur a lot of lines. 206 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:25,160 I'd been talking to Paul E. at ECW. I had never heard of ECW. 207 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,480 They invited me to come up there, and I told Cornette, 208 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:30,760 "Paul E. offered me a deal, 209 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:34,160 and a lot of goddamn money." And he was pissed about it. 210 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,720 I hated that we parted on bad terms, 211 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,400 but they couldn't go any further with us. 212 00:11:40,560 --> 00:11:45,120 Everything about ECW was both more violent and more real. 213 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:49,600 The guys started the trend of really hitting each with stuff. 214 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,560 I'm like, "Welcome home, motherfucker." 215 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:54,720 In June 1995, 216 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,200 The Gangstas leave the hostile crowds of Smoky Mountain, 217 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:03,200 and join the eclectic crew of Philadelphia's wildly popular ECW. 218 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,640 I told you, boy, we whooped their ass again! 219 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,160 When we got to ECW, we fit right in. 220 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:13,360 New Jack is on a mission here tonight in Atlanta! 221 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,880 And it was just like, "Fuck, we love this shit." 222 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:18,880 Dude, we're clicking hard 223 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:24,400 and we know we're the hottest thing on the planet by '96, '97. 224 00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:28,480 I was sent to meet New Jack at the hotel when he first came up. 225 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:30,280 The first ECW guy he met. 226 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:32,440 He got out of the car and I liked him. 227 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:36,440 He had swagger. He was like, "Don't fuck with me" 228 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:38,680 I'm like, "Oh, he'll fit right in." 229 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:40,560 We were one big family. 230 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:46,600 It's Tommy Dreamer, RVD, Taz, Sabu, you know, New Jack. 231 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:51,160 Heading up this crew of misfits is promoter, Paul Hayman. 232 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:52,960 He was the mad scientist. 233 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,080 He was everything. The writer. 234 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,960 He was the Steven Spielberg of all of it. 235 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:01,520 That dude was super brilliant. 236 00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:04,240 All our careers were jumping. 237 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,240 I think New Jack got in there 238 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,760 and he had to be the most... extreme guy in any situation, 239 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,120 -but there were no limits. -I'd come out with weapons... 240 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:19,080 Dive off shit. Fighting out in the audience, 241 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,000 going through chairs and knocking down shit. 242 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:24,960 It was blood and guts every goddamn night. 243 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:30,520 I truly feel that Jack was so violent because of the way he grew up. 244 00:13:30,680 --> 00:13:35,000 His childhood, his upbringing. That plays a part in who he is. 245 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:38,600 My childhood was fucked. 246 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:42,480 I had a daddy that was an alcoholic. He hated my mom. 247 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,400 One night, she came home from work, walked in the door. 248 00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:49,280 He pulled out a knife, and he stabbed her. 249 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,520 Five times, he stabbed her. 250 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:59,480 In front of the whole family. He didn't give a fuck. 251 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,360 A few months later, she was like, "I'm leaving". 252 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,280 She picked me up, tried to put me in the car. 253 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:10,720 He shot her in the back of the leg. This is what I grew up around. 254 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:17,800 And I'm like, "You wonder why sometimes I flip the fuck out?" 255 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,320 -What were your teen years like? -It's like... any other kid. 256 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,640 I've heard you talk about your first roberry. 257 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:28,560 Yeah. 258 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,960 I was on this kick like, "I'm gonna rob a store." 259 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:37,040 It was at a 7/11 down the street from where I live, 260 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,720 walking distance from where I live. 261 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:43,680 My mom had a little .22. I snuck it out of the room. 262 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,240 I went down the street, and I'm sitting there like... 263 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,480 What do I say? 264 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:53,480 Do I say, "This is a robbery give me the money"? 265 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:55,840 What to do I say? Know what I mean? 266 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,480 I was in 10th grade. 267 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,440 So I was like, okay. 268 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:05,200 I'll go in there and say, "Give me the money." 269 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:10,440 So I walked in, nobody there. "Give me the money!" 270 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:17,720 And the bitch handed me the money, I was like... 271 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,600 "Don't call the cops, I'll kill you." 272 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,680 Right? And she gave me the money and I ran out. 273 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,840 I was doing that shit every week. 274 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:35,400 From the 10th grade to 11th grade to 12th grade, when I got caught. 275 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,920 One time, they had a camera in there. 276 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,600 And cops came to school and they got me. 277 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:46,360 They offer me, they call it Zip-six. Zero to six years. 278 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,360 They gave me what they call a 24 month contract. 279 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:52,560 So I had to do 2 years in jail before I got out. 280 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:56,960 To see this kinda shit that I saw... Somebody go in the shower, 281 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,400 next thing, they were being raped. 282 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:03,600 And even I was one that was like, sometimes I wake up in the morning, 283 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:07,440 "I'll kill motherfuckers if they say anything to me." 284 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,760 Once I got off parole, I started going to school. 285 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:14,600 New Jack's outlet for violence 286 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:16,840 has taken him to new heights in ECW. 287 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,200 But on November 23rd, 1996, 288 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,960 a chance encounter with a novice wrestler 289 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:26,680 is about to send shockwaves through the entire wrestling world. 290 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,880 Can you tell me the story of the Mass Transit Incident? 291 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:35,520 I knew it was coming. He was 17. He told he was 21. 292 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:38,080 And, he had a little person with him. 293 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,320 Listen, New Jack, I'm not gonna lie, he was intimidating. 294 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:45,840 He was always presenting the image that he was sinister. 295 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,040 Hi, my name is Tiny The Terrible. 296 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:51,920 I was, basically, one of those midget wrestlers 297 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,800 that wanted to be considered not really as a midget wrestler. 298 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,600 Just as a wrestler that was short. 299 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,480 -So tell us what we're watching? -Jerry Springer. 300 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,800 Twin Terrors. Over 52 million viewed this episode. 301 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:11,680 Jerry gave me the first opportunity to really speak on a nation level. 302 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:13,920 -Did people recognize you after? -Yeah. 303 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:16,040 -What was that like? -Oh, great, man. 304 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:18,200 That's how I got most pussy I got. 305 00:17:18,360 --> 00:17:22,280 -I'm used to good-looking women. -That's true. 306 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,800 I got ego, too, 'cause I've been on TV, you know. 307 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:32,840 New Jack... if you went off-script, he'd make you pay for it. 308 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,880 If you're gonna cut somebody all the fuck up on their first match, 309 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:38,680 that don't make no sense. 310 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:42,960 And that's basically what happened with... 311 00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:45,400 with the Erich Kulas situation. 312 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:50,000 Teenage wrestler Erich Kulas calls himself Mass Transit. 313 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:51,600 Dressed as a bus driver, 314 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,000 his matches with Tiny and his brother 315 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,800 attract the attention of ECW. 316 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,880 He'd seen the tape of Erich Kulas and my brother wrestling. 317 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:07,440 Paul Hayman couldn't believe a big guy could work with midgets. 318 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:11,240 The three men are asked to appear at an upcoming match 319 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,920 in Revere, Massachusetts. 320 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:20,200 The best wrestling is not being able to tell between fiction and reality. 321 00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:22,840 That was one of the big appeals of ECW. 322 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:24,680 -Stu Kaplan. -John Donovan. 323 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:26,720 We did security for the show. 324 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:30,520 I was upstairs. I had a walkie talkie and someone said, 325 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,200 "Some guys here for the show." I saw Erich Kulas come in. 326 00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:37,920 I had no idea who he was, and I knew everybody. 327 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,120 And they went into the back of the locker room. 328 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,960 That was the last time I saw Erich until he came out for the match. 329 00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:49,720 No one knows that Erich has lied about his age, claiming to be 21. 330 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,800 In reality, he's a 17-year-old minor. 331 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:57,280 Axl Rotten didn't show up. He had a family emergency. 332 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:01,240 So Paul E. was like, "He gets a tryout." 333 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:02,960 He decided to cut us out. 334 00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:07,800 Erich just cut us off and just went for self. 335 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,320 An untrained teenager, who claimed to be a pro wrestler 336 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,320 and had probably wrestled some local shows, shows up. 337 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,360 They needed somebody for New Jack to beat up. 338 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:19,720 So they said, "Okay". First mistake. 339 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,640 So, Paul E. was like, "Jack, y'all go for seven minutes. 340 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:25,360 Do what you want to the kid." 341 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:29,160 I said, "Paul E., what I'm going to do to him, 342 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,960 people are gonna be talking about this 10 years from now." 343 00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:35,960 Well, it's been 20. We're still talking about it. 344 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:42,400 By end of 1996, New Jack has taken his controversial career 345 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,240 to dangerous new heights in the violent world of ECW. 346 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:50,120 Now, a last-minute change has landed him in the ring 347 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,600 with novice wrestler, Erich Kulas. 348 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,040 We're at the Wonderland dog track, 349 00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:00,800 where the ECW... famous Gangsta Erich Kulas incident happened. 350 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,600 We got here early, three hours before the show. 351 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,560 But there were still people here. "ECW, ECW!" I mean, I can feel it. 352 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:09,720 I'm getting goosebumps now. 353 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:14,360 So the untrained teenager with maybe three local matches 354 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,120 is gonna wrestle New Jack. 355 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:20,120 I saw Erich coming out. "Wow, that was the guy with his dad! 356 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:21,800 He got on the show." 357 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,960 Erich Kulas is paired up with D-Von Dudley, 358 00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:29,040 replacing Axl Rotten in their match with The Gangstas. 359 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,960 Mass Transit, this big teenager, went up to New Jack 360 00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:35,560 and told him he wanted to get some offense in. 361 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:37,560 He was like, "Can I do this? 362 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,520 Drop you out of the ring, push you through a table?" 363 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:42,680 And I said, "Fuck no." 364 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:47,840 That's the most disrespectful thing that you can do as a wrestler, 365 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,360 to come to a vet and tell him what you want to do. 366 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,400 So that's what pissed Jack off! 367 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,360 Now it makes sense, why Jack was like, 368 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:01,600 "I'm gonna cut this motherfucker." 369 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,080 He wanted me to cut him. 370 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,080 He'd already pissed me off, so I was like, 371 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,440 "Fine by me." I didn't try to kill him, 372 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,520 but I wanted to go close to death. 373 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:13,880 Not only did the kid want to get hits in, 374 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:16,760 but he wanted to have a great match. To bleed. 375 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:18,680 There are ways to do it. 376 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,400 There's the hard way -- you agree with your opponent 377 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:27,280 that he'll punch you in the eyebrow or in some place to bust you open. 378 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,320 There's also the easy way: 379 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:33,080 you take a common razor blade, something from around the house, 380 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,560 you trim it, wrap it in some tape, 381 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:40,560 and then you keep it on your wrist or in your waistband. 382 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:42,520 It was a common gimmick. 383 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:46,680 The blade was never intended to be an exacto knife. 384 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,760 I had been getting high all day. 385 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:54,120 I mean, I was high as fuck. 386 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:59,080 We told D-Von, "We'll put you out of the ring. Don't get back in". 387 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,080 D-Von didn't get touched, didn't get hit. 388 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:08,680 Everything was focused around Erich and New Jack giving it to Erich. 389 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:11,800 I started beating on him. 390 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,040 I was beating him with everything. 391 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,160 So, when it came time for us to get color, 392 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,240 I had a surgical scalpel about that long. 393 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,240 -So I just sliced him. -I'm standing there. 394 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,560 I could see over my shoulder, they need paramedics, 395 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,240 but New Jack was firing up the crowd. 396 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,440 I hope this fat piece of shit bleeds to fucking death! 397 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,240 At that point, I'm like, "Let's get him out." 398 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,760 I knew we were part of history. 399 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:44,880 A defiant middle finger from Erich seems to suggest he's okay. 400 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,680 But everyone can see that's not the case, 401 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,600 especially his family. 402 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:52,280 His father tried to get in. 403 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,400 I wouldn't let him in the room or near New Jack. 404 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,680 -DId Erich's father say stuff to you? -Called me a nigger. 405 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,160 "You fucking nigger, you stabbed my son!" 406 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:05,000 You know, we was off-camera, all bets was off. 407 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:06,520 I'd killed that old man. 408 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,680 I went backstage, but I was like, "Was it worth it?" 409 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:12,800 And he said, "They fucked me up." 410 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:17,200 I was the next match. So I bled like a stuck pig that night 411 00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:20,440 to take a little bit of the heat off of New Jack. 412 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,640 We had an argument. Erich's father: "Where you going?" 413 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,680 I said, "You're giving us a ride." 414 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:27,920 "I'm not giving you a ride back." 415 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:29,560 I said, "Yes, you are, 416 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,440 or we'll be fighting again in this motherfucker." 417 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,480 He got in the van, went to the hospital. 418 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,720 And I remember him taking the bandage off in the car, 419 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,240 pulling his hair up and looking at it in the fucking mirror. 420 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:49,280 Erich received 50 stitches, and says he never wants to wrestle again. 421 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,200 I have no feeling from here to here. 422 00:23:52,360 --> 00:23:54,960 An indent in my head where the nerves died. 423 00:23:55,120 --> 00:23:56,640 It changed him. 424 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,360 He was depressed and all that other shit. So... 425 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,920 The underground world of hardcore wrestling 426 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,080 is exposed to unprecedented national attention, 427 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,640 as New Jack is charged with assault and battery. 428 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,720 I asked my attorney, "Are they offering me a deal?" 429 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:15,640 He said, "They want five years." 430 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,200 I was like, "I don't know." 431 00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:20,720 He said, "I think I can beat this case." 432 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,000 The brutalization of teenage wrestler, Erich Kulas, 433 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:28,920 has created a media frenzy 434 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:33,200 and exposed the shocking world of hardcore wrestling. 435 00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:38,640 Now, a court will decide if New Jack must answer for the assault 436 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:40,360 with prison time. 437 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,040 You don't want to give your side? 438 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,240 -I wanna go to court. -Understand: 439 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,560 it was a six-jury panel. 440 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,320 One 80-year-old black guy and five white women. 441 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,840 He was nodding out. I was like, "That's my savior." 442 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,960 I'm like, "Stay awake, motherfucker. You're my savior!" You know? 443 00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:01,120 What was your role in the trial? 444 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,800 Explaining how Erich knew what he was doing. 445 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,960 If he can wrestle with us, he can wrestle with a big guy. 446 00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:11,520 It's our view that he knew what would happen. 447 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,520 He was prepared. He knew about the props. 448 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,360 'Cause, at that time, Kulas wasn't on my side. 449 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:22,800 We weren't friends. The only person that wanted me in this was Jack. 450 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,800 I said, "Jack, it's up to you. This is what I want. 451 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:27,760 I want to work in WWE". 452 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:32,360 And Jack promised me, "If I get off, I swear I will take care of you". 453 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,840 They had Paul E. on the stand. 454 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:39,240 The DA asked, "What did Mr. Kulas call Jerome Young?" 455 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,880 But he was like, "He called him the n-word". 456 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,760 The DA said, "For the record, say it." 457 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,240 Paul E. looked at me. "Jack, I'm sorry". 458 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,840 He said, "He called him a nigger". 459 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:58,520 The old juror, the black dude, he sat up. He was like... 460 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,040 And the white women was like... 461 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,200 I was laughing so hard, I'm sitting there, like... 462 00:26:04,360 --> 00:26:07,960 He was working the motherfuckers. 463 00:26:08,120 --> 00:26:11,920 He was working the shit out of the judge, the DA, the jurors. 464 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,360 He did his best work. That's what he did, he was working. 465 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,480 When the jury learns Erich lied about his age and experience, 466 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,320 the balance shifts in New Jack's favor. 467 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,200 They deliberated for that day, came back the next day. 468 00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:30,040 -They found me not guilty. -And I ended up working for WWE, 469 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:34,920 doing promos and shit with Shane, Big Show and Triple H. 470 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,240 Stephanie McMahon is introducing me and my partner 471 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,840 as The Twin Towers to go against The Rock. 472 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,120 -What was it like for you? -Oh, fucking great, dude. 473 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,400 There's me. There's my partner that could do the eyebrow. 474 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,760 And this was fresh after Erich Kulas. 475 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,240 So it was like, New Jack, I don't know what the hell he did, 476 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,600 but there was my spot right there. 477 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,000 Do you remember how Erich Kulas passed? 478 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:04,480 I didn't even know, really, until, like, years later. 479 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,800 I forgot how it went, but people say, "Yo, you know, Erich died." 480 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:10,880 After failing in criminal court, 481 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,520 Erich's family tries to sue New Jack 482 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,280 for damages caused by the incident. But in 2002, 483 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,800 he dies from complications from gastric bypass surgery. 484 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,680 And what was your reaction when he passed away? 485 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,520 I didn't give a fuck. It wasn't my fault. 486 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,800 I heard about it. I was like, "Oh, well." 487 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,240 I have to indict New Jack for this. He went too far. 488 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,880 But also, the image of ECW allowed guys to go way too far 489 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,080 and think that nothing would happen. 490 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,040 The Mass Transit incident has set a dangerous precedent, 491 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,720 and it's New Jack who has opened the door to a lawless new era. 492 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,600 New Jack started trying to go farther and farther, 493 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,960 not only with the blood and the edginess of the content 494 00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:56,560 but also the spectacular bumps and falls. 495 00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,240 I was the only one that snorted coke. 496 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,200 I mean, it was like a boost. 497 00:28:02,360 --> 00:28:07,240 You know what I mean? If I get high, I can go get high. 498 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,640 And I was snorting every night. 499 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,080 Once you've jumped off a 10-foot balcony, what's next? 500 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,160 Jump off a 15-foot balcony, and then a 20-foot balcony. 501 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,560 And at some point, there's no way this can end well. 502 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:31,440 -You have any favorite dives? -The one people always talk about... 503 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:33,520 me and Big Grimes. 504 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,160 Imagine Humpty Dumpty, with arms and legs, as a pro wrestler. 505 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,320 That's kind of how he was shaped. 506 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,880 Vic Grimes wanted to be run over with cars. 507 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,440 To be hit with things. He thought that was wrestling. 508 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,800 In 2000, Vic Grimes is booked to wrestle New Jack 509 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,120 in a match with a dangerous climax. 510 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,320 We climbed up on the scaffold... 511 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,880 It shook. Vic was like, "I can't do it." 512 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,920 Now, we're on Pay Per View. There's no time for error. 513 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,920 I said, "Let's go on three." He said, "I can't." 514 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:08,080 I said, "Fuck you, we going on 3." I said, "1, 2, 3," and I pulled him. 515 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,440 He did this flip, and his back... landed against 516 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,320 the side of my head. I cracked my skull. 517 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:18,000 I've never recovered from that. I broke my leg. 518 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,640 I lost my sight in my right eye, to this day. 519 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,480 I get headaches every day. 520 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,920 I have insomnia, 'cause I cracked my skull. 521 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,280 "Vic, this is all your fault, you dumb fuck." 522 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,880 That's one of Jack's rules: don't chicken out. 523 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,000 Jack's the kinda guy that if you... 524 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,120 you break those rules, he'll probably break you. 525 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:42,120 A year after the horrific fall that cracked open his skull, 526 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:46,280 New Jack agrees to a rematch with Vic, with even higher stakes. 527 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,880 What Grimes doesn't know is that New Jack is out for revenge. 528 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,200 Before the match, I went to a pawn shop 529 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:54,720 and bought a stun gun. 530 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:56,800 Yeah, I was there when New Jack-- 531 00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,080 And he told me he'd do it, so... 532 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,080 What did he want to happen? 533 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,280 He told me he'd tase the motherfucker. 534 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,080 In the locker room, he came up to me. I was ready to kill him. 535 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:12,280 He said, "I'm sorry." I said, "You didn't even call me." 536 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,040 I said, "Almost a year, you didn't even call me 537 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,560 to see how the fuck I was doing." 538 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,880 This is the highest elevation of any match 539 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,680 in the history of our sport! 540 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,160 I was high. 541 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,600 Y'know? High as a motherfucker. 542 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,320 So I tased him. I tased the shit out of him. 543 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,720 He was like, "I can't feel my legs." 544 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,600 I said, "You ain't gonna need 'em. Bombs away!" 545 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,120 Vic was a foot from missing the ring, which would've killed him. 546 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,360 I wanted him to hit the floor. I didn't throw hard enough. 547 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,400 I was trying to throw his ass to the fucking floor. 548 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,920 Don't piss Jack off. A fight's over when he says it is. 549 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,000 -I can't believe he didn't die. -It's the luck of fools 550 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,440 that this guy wasn't paralyzed. 551 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,440 And Jack wasn't particularly broken up about it. 552 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,200 I climbed off the fucking scaffold and I went to him. 553 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,080 "Now we're even, you fuck". 554 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,800 Vic Grimes is going to need medical attention. 555 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,920 Could you have got him for attempted murder? Maybe. 556 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,840 Throwing someone off of scaffolding is right on that line. 557 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,040 Incredibly, Grimes' worst injury is a dislocated ankle. 558 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,960 Once again, Jack pushes hardcore beyond its limits. 559 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,800 But the demand for this kind of extreme action 560 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,000 is only getting more intense. 561 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,720 And now, he's having to compete 562 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,560 against a new generation of hardcore wrestlers, 563 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:44,400 willing to give and receive disturbing levels of punishment. 564 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,320 So it became about one-upmanship. "Can you top this?" 565 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,560 And he had to go further and further 566 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,160 to keep that position, and then it became his calling card. 567 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,640 Was there a match where you went too far? 568 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,200 Well, I can name a few of them, but I'll say... 569 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,240 probably Gypsy Joe. 570 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,400 Oh, Lord. 571 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,000 -Hold on. -I looked at how old he was, 572 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,920 but then I forgot when we got in the ring. 573 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:14,880 In 2003, 574 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:19,680 New Jack faces 72-year-old journeyman Gypsy Joe, 575 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,040 who promotes himself as a man impervious to pain. 576 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,440 The problem... is no-one's bothered to tell New Jack. 577 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:31,040 The promoter was thinking, "This will be today's hardcore icon 578 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:35,720 and the old pro from yesteryear who's tougher than two-dollar steak." 579 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,560 So the night of the show, Joe comes up. 580 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,160 He said, "Listen to me, kid. I can teach you a lot." 581 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,680 I said, "Are you talking to me?" We didn't talk no more. 582 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,840 I went into the ring. Joe comes in the ring. 583 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:54,080 And Gypsy Joe, as per his gimmick, wasn't selling New Jack's stuff 584 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,320 because you really have to hit Joe 585 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,800 to make him go down and register, because he's so tough. 586 00:32:59,960 --> 00:33:02,280 So then, I got listening to these fans. 587 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:07,080 "Go home, nigger! Fucking nigger!" And then, I was pissed. 588 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,600 I beat Joe like motherfucker owed me money. 589 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:11,520 I beat the shit out of him. 590 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:13,360 Outside the ring, I got a bat, 591 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:18,000 -had barbed wire wrapped around it. -No! No! 592 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,040 Hit him in the head three times. 593 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,560 Jack just said, "Fuck this old man." 594 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,880 I threw a row of chairs on him. 595 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,680 And they got louder, "Go home, nigger!" 596 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,240 The more they said it, the more pissed I got. 597 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:37,760 I beat the shit out of a 100-year-old. 598 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,640 The match never should have happened in the first place. 599 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,440 With New Jack's escalating violence comes a higher level of risk, 600 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,040 and not just for those willing to fight him. 601 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,440 Was New Jack a liability for promoters? 602 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,680 I think some people saw him as one, but... 603 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,400 Yes, some promoters would, yeah. Absolutely. 604 00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:00,480 New Jack never made it to the WWE. They'd never touch him. 605 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:02,440 He was too controversial. 606 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,480 They were afraid of lawsuits or bad publicity. 607 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,640 Or that he'd hurt somebody. 608 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,880 With the mainstream appeal of hardcore now in decline, 609 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:15,200 New Jack is resigned to working for much smaller outfits, 610 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,440 some of whom can barely muster a crowd. 611 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,320 Despite this, New Jack isn't slowing down, 612 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:25,120 and he crosses the line again in 2004. 613 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:31,200 I've had many trials in my life 614 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:38,880 Yet I keep trying to do what's right 615 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,360 We bonded really, really well. 616 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,040 I'm MWW, independent recording artist now. 617 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,480 But I was a wrestler-slash-promoter. 618 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:48,960 When he hit Florida 619 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,320 and came through Jacksonville, he stayed at my house. 620 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,040 Jack is comical. If you get to know him, 621 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,600 he's a comedian and a great cook. 622 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,880 -What would he cook? -Spaghetti. 623 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,440 But he enjoys making sure that everybody's happy. 624 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,520 Out of the fire 625 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:11,480 -Wow. -That's one of mine. 626 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,880 The federation I used to own and promote 627 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,080 was Thunder Wrestling Federation. 628 00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:21,360 Thunder was gaining momentum and Jack had been there a few times. 629 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,040 New Jack's opponent is William Jason Lane, 630 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,520 wrestling under the name "Hunter Red." 631 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,680 That night, Red had asked me if he could wrestle Jack. 632 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,880 When you wrestle an icon, it moves you a little bit. 633 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:38,080 It's on your résumé. And I said, "Well, Red, 634 00:35:38,240 --> 00:35:40,240 that's a different ball game." 635 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,720 Hunter Red comes up and he's like, "What you wanna do?" 636 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:45,480 "We can talk in the back." 637 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,080 He said, "Let's talk now". 638 00:35:47,240 --> 00:35:50,440 I said, "No, we'll go in the back and talk about it." 639 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,040 So I laid it out. I said, "This is what we'll do." 640 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,200 And as I talked, he got up and said, 641 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,880 "We'll do whatever the fuck. Fuck it." 642 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,880 I'm looking around like, what the fuck? 643 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,880 I said, "Who put him up to this?" I said, "I will see you in the ring. 644 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,360 What the fuck ever we do, just whatever." 645 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,240 Something was troubling Red, the actual... 646 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,160 reality of wrestling New Jack, 647 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,520 I think, it kind of set in. 648 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:19,840 Once again, I'd been snorting coke. 649 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,560 I was high as a motherfucker, drinking vodka,... 650 00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:26,080 like I'm doing now. 651 00:36:26,240 --> 00:36:30,600 I had a claw, a Wolverine claw, that had these three blades on it. 652 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,040 One of the blades had broke off. I had it in my pocket. 653 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:35,520 When the match began, 654 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,840 Red picked New Jack up and sat him in a corner. 655 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:40,640 And he punched me. 656 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:42,760 My nose is big enough. 657 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,000 I don't need help to get it bigger. 658 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,960 Then he punched me, again, in the nose. 659 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,480 This guy is really hitting Jack hard, 660 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,440 and the way Jack moves across this ring, 661 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,480 hooking him and talking to him. 662 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,960 I said, "You trying to handle me? You really trying to handle me?" 663 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,880 Jack's reaching in his pocket for something. 664 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,360 He's cutting him! Oh, he's stabbing this mother... 665 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,000 Run! Oh, shit... 666 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,520 It's never good when you open a wrestling video 667 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,280 with a shot of a stage and an empty bandstand. 668 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,320 Oh, good Lord. 669 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,560 What is there, 30 people there? 670 00:37:20,720 --> 00:37:23,280 So the guy comes in the ring. They lock up. 671 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,840 Okay, already, he's pissing New Jack off. 672 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,640 And he pulled a knife out of his fucking pants 673 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,120 and is now stabbing this guy, who's trying to get away. 674 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:37,800 What the fuck is going on here? But is he actually stabbing this guy? 675 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:39,720 Look at that woman in shock, 676 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,880 and the kid, a 10-year-old kid is sitting there going... 677 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:47,800 This is a first, in 125 years of wrestling history. 678 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:52,680 This does not do our public image a world of good. 679 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,840 The line in wrestling between cooperation 680 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,360 and felonious assault is also blurred. 681 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:05,120 I always looked at it this way: If two guys agree to something, 682 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,880 and everything stays in those parameters, 683 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:09,560 they are working together. 684 00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:13,560 If something happens that is egregiously outside the parameters, 685 00:38:13,720 --> 00:38:17,240 such as "just take a knife and slash a guy's face", 686 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,680 that's crossed the line from cooperation to assault. 687 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:22,880 I stuck him like nine times. 688 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,680 On the news, they said 16. 689 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,240 I said, "No, it was nine." I counted. It was nine. 690 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,600 For the second time in his career, 691 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,720 New Jack's violence has led to legal trouble, 692 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,920 and the evidence against him is impossible to ignore. 693 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:43,160 The guy that called the cops said, "A stabbing at the Ramada Inn. 694 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,960 A black guy with camouflage on, stabbing a white guy." 695 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,240 So that's how they treated it. 696 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:53,520 The cops came in, guns drawn. "Get on the floor!" 697 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,320 I remember a cop asking Jack, "Why do you hate white people?" 698 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,880 And I just looked at him. But I thought that was inappropriate. 699 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:05,560 They put Red on a stretcher and Jack left in a police car. 700 00:39:05,720 --> 00:39:08,760 New Jack is charged with aggravated battery, 701 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,880 and faces up to 15 years in a Florida prison. 702 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:17,200 They took me to jail. Hunter Red comes up to the jail. 703 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,160 I'm like, "Why are you here?" He said, "I'll drop the charges. 704 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,800 You take me on the road and we can make an angle out of this: 705 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,880 'Hunter Red is looking for New Jack. He's out for revenge.' 706 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,160 We could do the whole Florida circuit." 707 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:35,600 I said, "Drop the charges first." I sat in jail for three weeks. 708 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,200 He went and dropped the charges. 709 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:42,920 I went home, put my shit in storage and I left Florida. 710 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,480 That was the last time I talked to him. 711 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,360 I mean, it was on the news and my mom saw it. 712 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,880 And she was like, "Oh, God, I can't believe 713 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:52,400 you stabbed somebody. 714 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,520 You should be ashamed." I go, "Bitch, it was a show. 715 00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:57,880 leave me alone," you know what I mean? 716 00:39:58,040 --> 00:39:59,640 We never got along. 717 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,640 She didn't fucking back me when I was wrestling. 718 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,280 I'm like, "Bitch, I got action figures. 719 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:09,760 How many of your friends' sons got action figures?" 720 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,920 My dad died when I was five. He died when I was five. 721 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:18,160 But, I remember the fucked up shit he did before he died. 722 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:22,480 And I'm like, you wonder why sometimes I flip the fuck out? 723 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:27,400 Because I was raised in a family that was fucking retarded. 724 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,560 So I'm like, "If I show up for a show and I go out there and do my thing, 725 00:40:31,720 --> 00:40:36,240 be grateful I ain't attacking you," you know what I mean? 726 00:40:37,240 --> 00:40:40,160 Jack was too much into his gimmick. 727 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,640 He carried that wherever the fuck he was. 728 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,520 There was no Jerome Young. It was just New Jack. 729 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:50,320 New Jack can't benefit from this reputation anymore. 730 00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,560 His active career is pretty much over with. 731 00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:55,560 It's more of an albatross. 732 00:40:55,720 --> 00:40:58,000 I was New Jack when I came in the door, 733 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,840 and I'm still New Jack. 734 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,920 And so then, who is Jerome Young? 735 00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,720 That's a difficult question. The line is blurred. 736 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:12,280 I don't know if there's a difference. Did I ever even meet Jerome Young? 737 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,360 I don't think I wanted to know, 738 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,120 'cause here was a guy even I kinda believed in. 739 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:19,640 Best part about it is the legend. 740 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:23,040 It's probably gonna be bigger than the person. 741 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:27,920 How tales get taller and taller and bigger and badder as time goes? 742 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,200 He perfected his craft. 743 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,680 Took it to the highest level possible. 744 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,640 Because he knew it would leave an impression. 745 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,920 New Jack leaves behind a complicated legacy. 746 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:46,640 Pioneering, unrepentant, but above all, without compromise. 747 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:51,480 I don't need nobody cheering for me. And partner, I don't need you. 748 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,520 I believe people like that shouldn't get away with it. 749 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,560 New Jack ain't gonna like what I'm saying about it. 750 00:41:57,720 --> 00:42:02,760 Fuck you, you know what you did. You fucked up innocent people. 751 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,800 Erich Kulas' family declined to participate in this documentary, 752 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,040 stating it was too traumatic to revisit the circumstances 753 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:14,480 and aftermath of the incident in Revere, Massachusetts. 754 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:18,440 Let's say one day, they make a movie about your life. 755 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,960 What would be the end of the New Jack movie? 756 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:25,640 I'm sitting in a wheelchair, snorting coke. 757 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,840 Just getting high as a motherfucker and it'd be, like, "The End." 758 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,040 I'd be like, "Thank you, bitches!" 759 00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:45,320 Subtitles translated by: Rianne Verdad